Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
2CC with Stephe Cenatiempo
27 February 2024
Topics: Gender pay gap, Dunkley, cost of living, bulk billing
E&OE.
Stephen Cenatiempo
I want to talk about this gender pay gap report out this morning, some concerning underlying figures when you look at the headline anyway, and 19% median pay gap or 18,461 When you look at total remuneration, and that seems to be driven by bonuses.
Senator Cash
Yeah, in the first instance, what I would say is, this is actually the delivery of a commitment that the coalition government had made and we funded in government in terms of publishing the gender pay gap for employers with a workforce of more than 100 or more employees. So what the new information does is it makes clear who the good performers are, but also who is falling behind the pace. And I think it’s ironic when you actually click on the link Steven, and you look at the companies because some corporates who donated big money into public campaigns for social causes, like the voice, but they’ve now under performed when it comes to paying women fairly. This should be a wake up call, putting them on notice.
Stephen Cenatiempo
Is that fair, though? Because like let’s look at one of the and I guess the classic example here is Qantas, where the majority of their pilots would be men and therefore paid more highly than the majority of their ground staff which would be women. That doesn’t mean women have been paid unfairly.
Senator Cash
The important point there is the gender pay gap is not a measurement of whether men and women carrying out the same work or being paid different rates. If people performing the same role are paid differently based on gender that has been illegal now, since I think it’s 1969. The question this poses for companies is how do you get more women into higher paying jobs? And that’s what we really need to do is spark that conversation. How do we get those women to step up and take on those roles but also how do we get more men into the roles that women would traditionally hold? So what this information really does is it arms employees and arms consumers, investors, etc. – all stakeholders with the information about the company, and it really was put in place to help motivate, change
Stephen Cenatiempo
Alan Joyce in and of himself on his remuneration would have thrown the figures out altogether and now that there’s a female CEO isn’t going to reverse that order almost automatically.
Senator Cash
That’s why it’s important to look at what the data looks at – which is composition, roles and pay. And I saw the WEGA chief executive Mary Wooldridge this morning saying exactly the point you’ve just made. This is about sparking a conversation, because you need to understand the composition, the roles and the pay. It’s not about the men and women carrying out the same work. If they are paid different rates that is actually illegal in this country. So this is all about sparking that conversation in companies. How do you get more women into those higher paying roles? Because what it really does reflect is the under representation of women in the higher paid roles, but it’s also an I’ve always said this, even when I was the Minister for Women, how do you get more men to actually take on those roles that traditionally women have filled.
Stephen Cenatiempo
The other issue I’m hearing is that there’s going to be a changing methodology moving forward where gender identity is going to be taken into account, which is going to effectively render these figures useless, isn’t it?
Senator Cash
Well, again, the figures themselves actually need to be unpacked. Regardless the composition, the roles, the pay, to actually really understand what the data is. But at this point in time, it’s all about sparking the conversation in terms of how do you get more women into the higher paid roles, but obviously, the flip side of that is how do you get more men into the roles that women traditionally hold? And that’s the conversation I believe companies have on a one to one basis with their workforce because each company, quite frankly, is going to do things differently. Alright,
Stephen Cenatiempo
The latest polling both News poll, and the Resolve poll show that the coalition’s primary vote has increased. Labor sort of look like they’re going backwards. What does this mean for the Dunkley by election this weekend?
Senator Cash
Well, again, I think the question that I posed to people – I was in Dunkley the other day on a polling booth with our candidate Nathan Conroy, and I was talking to people – I would say to them, are you better off now under Mr. Albanese than you were in May 2022, when Labor was elected, and the overwhelming response is no. So I think that Australians are really starting to realize the sort of government this country now has. But it’s also it’s a reflection on the Prime Minister, who has now been caught out time and time again, being dishonest. And if you want to focus on numbers, let me tell you the numbers that people are focusing on in Dunkley it’s called the cost of living crisis. Food up 9% electricity up 20%, gas caught up 27%. And then of course, you talk to them about the 12 interest rate hikes, you know, with the highest interest rates and rent rises in over a decade. So very much I think the polls are a reflection on local families, feeling the rising costs and interest rates under the Albanese government.
Stephen Cenatiempo
What do you make of polling suggesting that young people are starting to come around to the idea of nuclear power?
Senator Cash
I think people are finally realising that that is the way forward, that if you actually want to be serious about you know, zero emissions, nuclear power is the way to go. I think it’s also fascinating that given now the Coalition is having that conversation with Australians and you can really see that Australians are engaging in the conversation. But that existence of technology means more and more young people are actually able to go and do their own research as opposed to listen to those on the left, who would have you pay through the roof for your electricity, they couldn’t care less how much you are paying. They don’t care even if it economically crippled the country. They don’t care if people lose their jobs, whereas the Coalition has always said we will be technology agnostic. We will look at the best way of delivering and in this case it would be a zero emission technology. So I think personally fantastic. I think people are waking up to the fact that under Labor, they are literally being crippled. That electricity, as I said, gone up 20%, gas has gone up 27%. Labor seems to live in this bizarre bubble where they actually don’t care about what the consumers themselves are paying. Whereas we’re taking a far more realistic approach. And the evidence is now out there. And consumers can access that evidence.
Stephen Cenatiempo
We’ve recently seen a report that shows the bulk billing rates are falling right across the country here in Canberra, we’ve got the lowest bulk billing rates in the country, as I always say so we should have. When are we going to have a fairly uncommon conversation about our overall health system and not use bulk billing as the universal panacea and except that it’s just not sustainable for everybody to get free visits to the GP when and whenever they want.
Senator Cash
Well in the first instance, what I would say to that because this goes through the numbers that people focus on, bulk billing is collapsing under Labor. I mean, despite all of their rhetoric, despite their promise to strengthen Medicare, but these figures clearly show they have only made the system weaker.
Stephen Cenatiempo
I’ve got to pull you up there because the reality is that bulk billing, the rebates didn’t increase under the Coalition government at all either. But
Senator Cash
Okay, let’s have a look at the GP bulk billing rate right now under Labor – it’s when 77.7%, compared to 84% under Peter Dutton as health minister, and 88.5%, by the time the coalition left office. So when you look at our track record, we increased Medicare funding every single year, we almost doubled the funding for Medicare during our term in government. And on top of that, we budgeted a further 7.3 billion increase in Medicare investment over the following four years.
Stephen Cenatiempo
People are still looking at the right the wrong fingers. Bulk billing shouldn’t be the measure of this.
Senator Cash
Well, again, that’s what people feel though. That is the reality when they walk into a doctor. Can I afford to go at the moment. I think the figure is 1.2 million Australians avoided seeing a doctor last year due to cost and when you talk to them about why they were forced to choose between putting food on the table and paying their bills or visiting their GP. What you’ve got here is what the government continues to ignore. This is the most pressing issue that I see facing our health care system. It underpins all of the current pressures. So this is what people when they are walking into a doctor feel, can I afford to go and if I can, will they bulk bill me? Or am I actually going to be out of pocket and if I’m out of pocket, what else do I have to forego?
Stephen Cenatiempo
Well, isn’t it but isn’t that the role of our political leaders to change the narrative of that conversation so that we actually will look at maybe creating a sustainable health system?
Senator Cash
Absolutely. And what we have said is if Labor is serious about making it cheaper and easier for Australians to access health care, then they have to listen to the coalition’s consistent calls. And we have consistently done this for a national and comprehensive Workforce Strategy for the entire care sector. Because unless you have that you are actually not going to take a step in the right direction. But when you look at what people feel on a daily basis, it does look like that bulk billing is collapsing under Labor. And that’s certainly the feedback I get when I’m out and about.
Stephen Cenatiempo
I appreciate your time this morning.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you Stephen.
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