Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
ABC Radio Perth Mornings with Nadia
19 JUNE 2024
TOPICS: Nuclear energy
E&OE
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Let’s now go to WA Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash. Senator, good morning, and thank you for your time.
Senator Cash
It’s great to be with you, Nadia. Thanks for having me on.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Peter Dutton this morning was saying that two of these power stations, power plants would be on stream between 2035 and 2037. Which ones would they be?
Senator Cash
Yes. They’re likely to be on the east coast. And the reason there is, as you know, the east coast is in an absolute energy crisis. And in particular, power bills in the east have increased by up to $1000 more than the Albanese government had promised. The situation in Western Australia, as Western Australians know because of our access to gas, is different, so we are likely to be part of the second tranche, which is in the lead up to 2050.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
2050. And what about the cost? What people want to know is how much this is all going to cost?
Senator Cash
Really good question. Absolutely. So, the first thing I would say is this. The reason we are doing this is every Australian deserves and should expect access to reliable and affordable electricity. They are not getting that under Labor. So, our philosophy in terms of our energy mix is this. Today we have renewables plus gas plus coal. It’s a fact that it’s going to shift globally to a future energy mix of renewables plus gas plus nuclear. When you look at other countries, Nadia, and this is the important bit, that already have nuclear energy – so, for example, in Ontario, nuclear constitutes around 60% of its energy mix, households are paying around 14 cents a kilowatt hour. That is four times less than some Australian households. And then when you look at the US state of Tennessee, they’ve got about 44% nuclear in its mix; households are paying just 18 cents a kilowatt hour, which is around three times less than some Australian households. So, where you have it already in operation for decades and decades on a global scale, the evidence clearly shows zero emissions nuclear energy as part of the energy mix, gets energy prices down across the world. And that’s why, just in case your listeners didn’t know, over 30 countries already have nuclear in their mix, and they actually want more, and another 50 are looking to introduce nuclear for the first time.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Okay, but you still have to build them Senator, you still have to build them, how much will they cost to build? That’s the question I’m asking.
Senator Cash
It’s a really good question as well. And what we have said is in the first instance, a key advantage of modern zero emissions nuclear plants is that they can be plugged into existing grids, which is why those seven locations including the nuclear power station, have been chosen. So, what actually happens is, they effectively replace retired or retiring coal plants. And what then happens is they avoid much of the new spending needed, as Labor had do in their renewables-only system so that of course, something Labor hasn’t told people is how much is their new transmission.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
But with all due respect, Senator, I’m asking you about Liberals’ policy today. And what people want to know is how much it will cost to build – if you don’t know, can you just say you don’t know?
Senator Cash
Oh, well, what we’ve said is we’ll release more details in the near future –
Nadia Mitsopoulos
When? Before the election or after the election?
Senator Cash
Absolutely. As part of our cheaper, cleaner and consistent energy plan, including more details around the cost of zero emissions nuclear energy, but unlike Labor, we will be clear on our costs. What Chris Bowen isn’t telling people, the people down at Geographe Bay know this Nadia because they are furious with Chris Bowen, absolutely furious in terms of the proposed wind farm. Labor are not telling you what the 28,000 kilometres of new transmission lines across this country is going to cost. But what do the experts say? Between $1.2 trillion and $1.5 trillion. And as I said, we have been very precise. A key advantage of these seven sites is that the modern zero emissions nuclear plants can be plugged into the existing grid.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Okay. A couple of things. Now you’re saying we probably wouldn’t get Collie power, nuclear power plant in Collie till 2050. So, do we just continue to burn gas and coal until then?
Senator Cash
Well, obviously we have a greater reliance on gas, people know that that is the transition fuel that we will rely on. But in terms of what the plan is and how we’ll get started, we’ll initially develop two establishment projects, and as I’ve said, they are likely to be in the eastern states. And then secondly, you’d have a build-out of projects through to 2050. But the situation in the east Nadia, it is at absolute crisis point in terms of access to reliable, sustainable and cheap energy.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
But we live in the west – we live in the west and we are not part of the national grid. And so, the concern is that WA’s grid is very separate to the national grid. It’s a lot smaller. The Head of Synergy, David Fyfe, has said that nuclear is too big for our grid. You cannot turn it off when demand is low. Even the head of AEMO in WA has agreed with him. So, they are also saying that nuclear is not right for WA.
Senator Cash
Okay, and I would actually say to them in the first instance, there will be a significant community engagement process, and a detailed technical analysis of each community.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Should you not have already done that, Senator, should you not have already had your detailed community consultation with the people of Collie and done all of those technical studies?
Senator Cash
Well again, in the first instance, what we need to do on coming to government is actually lift the moratorium on nuclear technology so that we can establish a civil nuclear program in Australia. Ted O’Brien and Peter Dutton have been talking to people around Australia since coming into government. Rick Wilson has been talking to the Shire of Collie –
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Well, actually, the Shire of Collie, I spoke to the President a couple of weeks ago. They said they had crickets from the Liberal Party, they were his words. We’ve had crickets, nothing.
Senator Cash
Well, I will disagree with that. Rick Wilson, he was there in March. He was very good. And the shire president said he’d keep an open mind, and Rick made the commitment to him on announcement I will come to Collie. Rick is meeting with him at two o’clock today. But again, this is a long-term plan. Isn’t it great finally, Nadia, we have someone who has a long-term plan for Australia to ensure that Australians can keep their lights on and they can actually afford to pay the bills. And I would ask any of your listeners to keep an open mind in relation to the benefits of retiring coal out of the grid and bringing nuclear on because ultimately, under Labor’s plan, the bad news is you’re not going to meet it and it is going to cost you and the lights potentially will go out. Well, I’m sorry. I want an Opposition leader who can offer me and the Australian people and Western Australians a solution and that is what Peter Dutton is doing and has done today.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
WA Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash, my guest this morning. Water is an issue, a concern that we don’t have enough water and also where will the waste go? Have you worked out?
Senator Cash
A really good question in relation to waste. You know what a lot of people don’t know –
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Just tell me where it will go.
Senator Cash
Hold on. Just hold on for one moment. Waste is one of nuclear energy’s biggest strengths as it creates so little. So, consistent with standard practice around the world, the waste from the zero emissions nuclear power plants will be stored on site throughout the life of the asset before being transferred to what would be a permanent repository. So, you know, responsibly managing your
Nadia Mitsopoulos
Have you identified sites? Would that include sites in WA?
Senator Cash
Well again, if you saw Roger Cook the other day, he has already announced that there’ll be nuclear waste storage down near I think it was Rockingham in relation to AUKUS. So, you’ve got to understand Western Australia and South Australia have embraced nuclear submarines as part of the AUKUS agreement. Australia will soon be managing spent fuel from the reactors used in submarines. And the government itself is currently looking for a permanent repository for this purpose on a defence establishment. So, Nadia, let’s be clear. Australians have embraced nuclear submarines and consistent with, say, the United Kingdom, we’d be using the same permanent repository for managing waste from both zero emissions nuclear plants, and our future fleet of nuclear-propelled submarines. And I congratulate Premier Malinauskas in South Australia and even former Premier Mark McGowan here, who embraced for our state and South Australia, being a home for nuclear submarines.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
What about water? There’s an issue that we don’t have enough of it. You probably have to start building desalination plants to deal with this. Is that, is that an issue?
Senator Cash
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. What we’ve been very, very clear is that you would have an extensive two and a half year community engagement process. A detailed technical analysis of each community. So in this case, it’s the Muja, power station. The minister, or the relevant minister at the time would then receive a comprehensive report which details a preferred concept for each location. The minister would then make a determination about where the establishment projects would be built, and they’d give consideration to certain things and obviously water would be one of them. But again, what is this all about? It is about our energy transition, the energy mix – renewables, gas and coal – shifting to a future energy mix – renewables, gas and nuclear – bringing the community with us to ultimately deliver whatever Australians deserves and quite frankly, should expect from their government – access to reliable and affordable electricity. And the reality is under Labor, this just isn’t happening.
Nadia Mitsopoulos
I’ll leave it there. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you Nadia.
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