Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
2GB with Michael McLaren
Topics: Industrial relations
9 February 2024
E&OE.
Michael McLaren
The Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations is on the line. Michaelia, lovely to talk to you again.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you and hello to your listeners.
Michael McLaren
Let’s start, just quickly, with this right to disconnect, because this was the thing getting all the headlines. But by and large, it’s a small part of, really, the holistic change which was about to be legislated. But I’m sure as a politician there are some days you’d love us to stop calling you at, say, 6:30 in the morning, can you come on at one o’clock or whatever it is.
Senator Cash
And guess what, it doesn’t reflect the realities of the modern workplace. But more than that, I mean, this was just a dirty deal done with the Australian Greens at the last minute. And because of the chaotic approach to getting this legislation through the Senate, I mean, you’ve got to be kidding me. Labor last night supported the Greens’ amendment, which is now to jail bosses for after hours calls to employees. I mean, what a complete, total and utter debacle. And Labor now in the House of Representatives are going to have to fix up their own mess and actually understand it, admit to the Australian people, they actually voted for criminal penalties for bosses who call their employees after hours. I mean, it’s a Monty Python skit at best, Michael.
Michael McLaren
Well, it is broadly though the business community are now saying, they’re on the record today quoted, I think, in the Australian saying all of this, not just this issue of the right to disconnect, but the broad sweep of IR changes which are going through are going to take us back to the 1970s. I want to get your comment on this because what I would suggest is, maybe, the big bosses and big business themselves would be wise to return to what they were focused on in the 1970s, rather than what they seem to be more focused on in 2024. And that is social issues.
Senator Cash
Oh, look. Absolutely. And I say to big business out there. What did you actually expect from the Australian Labor Party? The Australian Labor Party, as you know, Michael, were born of the labour movement, and the unions affiliated with it. The Australian Labor Party are the union movement. That is why the union movement in Australia donates millions and millions and millions of dollars each year to Labor. So in Labor’s defense, there is only one agenda that they are implementing, and that is the union’s agenda. Now the people I feel sorry for are the small and family businesses out there. Michael, they are, as you know, Labor doesn’t like them, God forbid you actually had a small and family business out there actually creating jobs. But they are under so much pressure from rapidly rising costs, you know, high inflation, the cost of living crisis, struggling with staff shortages, the increasing power cost, they are now going to be strangled and drowned with even more red tape. Now, Michael, you mentioned and you are right, the right to disconnect, that is only a small part of what has gone through. Let’s talk about casual employment. Under us, do you know what the definition of a casual is? Casual employee means employee engaged and paid as such. That is what all employers understood, in particular, small and family businesses. Do you want to know what the definition is now? The definition of a casual employee is three pages long, with anywhere between 15 to 25 steps, depending on how you read the complicated legislation. And even then, at the end of it, you could get it wrong. Now guess what that means for small businesses across Australia? You wind up in the Fair Work Commission and the Fair Work Commission will tell you whether or not the employee that you thought you’re employing as a casual was actually a casual. I mean, that is just complete total and utter madness on any analysis, and this is what has passed the Senate and will become law and all businesses in Australia will now have to comply with.
Michael McLaren
This is the great concern with the Australian body politic, and I put myself in this and others, that these are complicated issues to understand and I don’t claim to understand them holistically, certainly not as comprehensively as you, but these are difficult issues to understand for everyday people like myself, it’s far easier for everybody else tp have an opinion on whether we should have a Union Jack in the corner of a flag, change a word of the national anthem. The media froth at the mouth this time of the year about Australia Day and invasion and all this sort of nonsense. And yet these things going on in the parliament, particularly in the Senate where you reside, are game changers, are they not, for industrial relations and therefore the way that all of us interact, workforce, productivity, the economy, and it almost gets no mention.
Senator Cash
You hit the nail on the head. Absolutely. He who controls the industrial relations system, basically controls the way employers employ Australians. And at the moment under Labor, that is, without a doubt, the Australian union movement. Our principles are very, very simple. What workplaces need, and what both employers and employees are demanding, is greater flexibility in work that in turn makes our workplaces more productive and prosperous, more competitive, it gives more Australians opportunities to work, but also at higher, but the key is, more sustainable, you know, wages. That’s what workplaces need. Labor, on the other hand, this is without a doubt the most radical shake up of Australia’s industrial relations system in decades. Now, the Labor Party say I’m running a scare campaign and Everything that I’ve said today hasn’t occurred. Well, Michael, as you and I know, most of their changes haven’t even become law yet, because they haven’t started. But not only that, changes take time to flow through to the economy. Once they do flow through, though, that’s when you see the impact. But in the first instance, what do they do? They send a chilling effect to business, and in particular, to small businesses thinking, “Should we bring on someone else?” Well, the answer now becomes “no”. And what about those people out there? Many of them will be your listeners who are thinking, you know, I’d really like to work for myself. I’d like to run a business. They actually look at this legislation and they say, why would I bother? I mean, the attack on self employed people that has now gone through is actually quite disturbing. I mean, the government has legislated a simple attack on Australians who want to be their own boss, think about tradies. I mean, they hate people who want to be their own boss because they can’t unionise them. So what they’ve done here is basically added complexity and confusion into the relationship. But more than that, they’ve actually allowed the Fair Work Commission to say, you know, we’ve decided you’re not self employed, and guess what? We’re going to call you employee-like. And you know what the Fair Work Commission then gets to do? tell you what your minimum conditions are. Again, I fundamentally believe in tradies, I fundamentally believe in the rightS of the self employed people. I love that when someone says to me, I want to be my own boss, because guess what? I’m from the party who wants to get out there and back them every step of the way. Well, the bad news to every self employed person out there is, please take a really good look at this legislation. I’m assuming you’d have to do that at midnight on a Sunday, because it may well impact you. But again, the front pages say it all, IR heading back to the 70s. Now Labor would like to say that’s the Coalition running a scare campaign. Well guess what? It’s not. It’s the simple reality, because that’s what the employers of Australia are saying. And the last time I checked, Michael, governments don’t create jobs, the employers of Australia do, and we should be backing them and their ability to work with their employees in their workplaces for the best interests of both every step of the way.
Michael McLaren
Let me just ask you, the business community people who brought this all on themselves, I made comments yesterday that they had engaged in a years or two years long pash with the Labor Party, but it was in one direction. And eventually they’ll come back to your side of politics, understanding the ideological alignment that is more natural. But if they start knocking on the door now, as I mentioned, the door may not open because I can appreciate that in the Coalition, a bit bruised and battered, but the bromance was over for a while there from business. And they brought this on themselves. They really got into bed with Labor. Surely they knew, as you’ve said, this is the political wing of the union movement, they will always put the union movement first.
Senator Cash
Absolutely. I mean, to be fair to Labor, they’re the union movement. The history of the Australian Labor Party is they were born of the union movement. The union movement, there is a reason they donate millions and millions and millions of dollars to Labor. But Michael, it’s actually more than that. The business community need to understand Labor have the numbers. It’s interesting to watch a number of commentators say that it was a great victory for the Labor Party. How in God’s name is it a victory when you have the numbers in both the House and the Senate? It is their agenda, they are implementing, full stop. That is it. They have the numbers, they will implement their agenda. So I say to the business community, but in particular, on behalf of the small and family businesses out there, please stand up for your employees. Please stand up for you and yourselves as employers, because we do rely on you to, every day, open your doors and employ Australians, pay them well, and contribute to the economy. You will get that under a Coalition Government. That is being taken away from you under a Labor Government. And it doesn’t matter what you say to Labor. They’ve got the numbers, it’s going through.
Michael McLaren
That’s right. Well, there can be a change in a year or so time if business wanted. They’re gonna have to want it. They haven’t shown it the last few years that they do. Good to talk with you Michaelia.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you and thanks for the opportunity.
Recent Comments