Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
ABC Canberra Mornings with Lish Fejer
Topics: ACT drug laws
14 September 2023
E&OE.
Lish Fejer
A topic of Federal government business today, Western Australian Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash will introduce by Notice of Motion a Private Senators Bill. You’re going to hear from Senator Cash in a moment but you’ve been listening to breakfast this morning. The Federal government just talking about the Australian Capital Territory and what we’ve voted in. What are your thoughts on this? Do you feel we are fit to govern ourselves, make our own decisions or do we need Federal government help? 1300 681 666. Just looking at the chat you’ve been having with Adam this morning, he’s run a poll that says should the parliament intervene in ACT governing? And 75% of you say, no they shouldn’t. Yet, that means 25% of you say – yeah, it’s good that a bit of an intervention is there. You let me know why. Penny you say the ACT government is a basket case. Yes, we hope federal government rescues us from wacky drug users in the ACT. Your thoughts keep them coming because this is a really interesting discussion. It’s not the first time it’s happened either. The Federal Coalition wants to overturn the ACT Labor-Greens government’s drug decriminalization bill. Now this is going to come into action into force on the 28th of October next month. Federal Opposition Leader and former police officer Peter Dutton has called the laws a disgrace. This is an attack on territory rights as independent Senator David Pocock has called it or is it necessary for the Feds to step in? Well as I said, today, Western Australian Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash will be introducing by notice of motion a Private Senators Bill, Australian Capital Territory Dangerous Drugs Bill 2023. Senator Cash thanks for your time this morning.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you Lish.
Lish Fejer
What are you proposing?
Senator Cash
Okay, so all we’re proposing is a bill that does one simple thing. It preserves the status quo in the ACT in regards to drug use. So as of the 28th of October, what’s going to happen is the Labor-Greens government in the ACT will roll out the red carpet to ice, heroin, cocaine, speed, acid and other drugs for personal use. We say that is a bad law, it must be thrown out in the interest of all Canberrans and all Australians. What I propose to do is literally put in a bill today in the parliament that says the bill will not have any effect. It doesn’t affect territory rights and it doesn’t amend the powers of the ACT Legislative Assembly. All it says is this – it is such a bad law, it will have serious consequences, not just for Canberrans but Australians, and the law has no effect.
Lish Fejer
Why are you intervening?
Senator Cash
Because again, sometimes in life, a law is so egregious, the consequences of the law are so bad that the Federal government or in this case, the Federal Coalition has to step up. Let’s just put it into perspective. On the 28th of October, amongst other things a person can carry up to – 1.5 grams of ice, 1.5 grams of cocaine or one gram of heroin. Now, not many people are going to know what that actually means. So let’s have a look at what the US Department of Justice says in relation to heroin. One gram of heroin is up to five times the average lethal dose of heroin. And the ACT government says that is okay for personal use. Now, my position, Peter Dutton’s position is very clear. Our nation’s capital should not be the drug capital. In particular, when you have lawyers, you have the police, you have pharmacists, you have the ACT Law Society, you have community groups, all saying please, please, please do not decriminalize and give the red light to drug usage. And these are hard drugs Lish, these are hard drugs.
Lish Fejer
Senator Cash and I think I want to throw this out to our listeners as well because we hear in the ACT regardless of everyone’s opinion and they do vary on matters of – drug decriminalization, Calvary takeover, voluntary assisted dying. All of those laws, three times the federal government have intervened in our ACT government decisions. We elected our government, we voted them in, they have passed these laws.
Senator Cash
But let me say this to your listeners, they did not take this policy as an election commitment to the last election. So you did not vote in this policy. This was put in as a Private Member’s Bill. It was not even put in openly by the government. But Lish putting that aside as I said, sometimes they law is so bad that you have to step in. I am not going to stand by as a member of the Federal Parliament and watch the ACT government roll out the red carpet to hard drugs including ice, heroin, cocaine, speed and acid, I would be derelict quite frankly in my duties.
Lish Fejer
Senator Cash is with me this morning, Senator Michaelia Cash, West Australian Liberal Senator, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, what do you think? What are you hearing here? 0467 922 666 because Senator Cash ACT Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee spoke to Adam Shirley on Brekkie she was asked whether the federal parliament should intervene in the ACT’s laws to decriminalize certain amounts of certain illicit drugs. Here’s her response.
Elizabeth Lee
In short no. I’ve supported territory rights and I’d be very concerned about any steps to diminish that. But we have been extremely clear that we are strongly against drug decriminalization. When the laws were brought in and debated last year we were opposed to then, we’re opposed to it now but we have committed to repealing them.
Lish Fejer
They’ve committed to repealing them. But yes, if they don’t want your intervention, what do you say?
Senator Cash
I would say in the first instance as I said, this is not about Territory Rights. It doesn’t amend the powers of the ACT Legislative Assembly. I am very, very pleased that Elizabeth Lee is committed to repealing. But guess what? The next election in the ACT is not until October 2024. These laws commence in October 2023 in six weeks time. In 12 months, the damage that can be done by giving the red light to ice, heroin, cocaine, speed and acid. I’m sorry Lish, I cannot stand by and watch that happen.
Lish Fejer
Now, ACT Greens leader Shane Rattenbury also spoke about this with my colleague, Adam Shirley on Brekkie.
Shane Rattenbury
We’ve seen that the Liberal Party now has no representation here federally for the ACT. I think that reflects that you know, this community said at the last election we felt that the Federal Senate at the time didn’t represent the views of the territory. I think what our community is really looking for is solutions, not shrill negativity.
Lish Fejer
Yeah at the last federal election, then Liberal Senator of the ACT, Senator Zed Seselja wasn’t voted back in. Presumably, he didn’t reflect the sentiment of the ACT to the Federal Parliament. Have you misunderstood the views of the Canberra community?
Senator Cash
No, I don’t believe so because as I said, this was not a policy that the Labor-Greens government took to the last election. When I look at the feedback that has been given in particular by say the AFP. I mean they’ve given evidence Lish about cycles of crime that link drug use to offences including assault, burglary, stolen motor vehicles, theft, justice procedures, and firearms. You know, in relation to the operational example of how the similar personal use scheme has been exploited here in the ACT to sell cannabis get this to school children as young as 12 years old. I look at what the first responders, the emergency workers have said in relation to these laws. They’re the people that are going to be picking up the pieces on behalf of the ACT government. I have spoken to families who have lost children as a result of drug overdoses. I cannot stand by and say that these laws giving the red light to ice, heroin, cocaine, speed, acid and other drugs are okay.
Lish Fejer
Quarter past 9 on ABC Radio Canberra. Senator Michaelia Cash with you this morning on ABC Radio Canberra mornings, my name’s Lish Fejer. What are your thoughts on this? A lot of you saying on my text line 0467 922 666 saying that you did not vote for Michaelia Cash and don’t want the interference. What’s your response to that?
Senator Cash
Well I agree, they didn’t vote for me. But I have to say they also didn’t vote for this policy.
Lish Fejer
The ACT government, the ACT Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith said that the reforms were focused on harm reduction, have been called for by people who have lived experience of drug-use, the alcohol and other drugs sectors as well. Then they know ACT is a progressive community. It is the first time drug decriminalization not legalization, decriminalization has been introduced into an Australian state or territory. Senator Cash, how’s this been initiated? Has anyone from the ACT Liberal Party asked you to intervene? Or have you heard from the Canberra community directly?
Senator Cash
Yes, so I’ve had people approached me. And in particular as the 28th of October gets closer, as you’ve stated, Elizabeth Lee herself, on behalf of the ACT Liberals has committed to repealing the laws. I mean, I just don’t believe our nation’s capital should be the drug capital of Australia. And when I look at the penalties that are now going to apply. I mean, the ACT government have literally created a parking fine scheme that applies to the possession of these hard drugs – ice heroin, cocaine.
Lish Fejer
Michaelia, you’re a Western Australian Liberal Senator, do you have a drug problem in Western Australia? In your electorate?
Senator Cash
I think you have a drug problem in Australia and I know the word that the Former Coalition Government did in particular and traveling around Australia, looking at the ice epidemic and the damage that it is going to be causing to Australia. I look at the evidence that’s been given by the AFP, as I said – the police, the pharmacists, the first responders and families that I’ve spoken to. We are talking about drugs in quantities as I’ve said – one gram of heroin, up to five times the average lethal dose.
Lish Fejer
How do you propose we tackle the problem then as a health problem as a as a justice problem? The United Nations Office of Drug and Crime says that by decriminalizing possession, investing in treatment and harm reduction services, we can reduce the harm of drug misuse, while improving public safety and health. How do you propose we do solve this problem?
Senator Cash
Well, if you look at what the Australian Border Force has said. I mean, effective drug policy reform itself requires all jurisdictions to work together. You need to ensure you have a holistic policy, a coordinated policy and aligned to a national approach that addresses supply, harm and demand reduction. So, let’s look at what the AFP have then said in relation to this change that the ACT is making. They have actually said these changes will lure recreational drug users into Canberra and sparking increase in drug-related deaths.
Lish Fejer
I think the big response on my text line this morning is that we voted our government in, we are big people, we are responsible citizens. I just guess, do you think we’re responsible enough to govern ourselves here in the ACT on this issue?
Senator Cash
I think there are clearly issues with the performance of the ACT government in this regard. I would ask your listeners to go and do some more understanding of what is actually going to happen here in six weeks time. Look at the quantities that have been legalized, talk to the AFP, talk to first responders, talk to families who have lost their children as a result of a drug overdose, talk to pharmacists. The ACT drugs law is a bad law and it must be thrown out. But not just for Canberran’s but all Australian’s.
Lish Fejer
Thankyou for your time this morning. I appreciate it on the last day of setting day, appreciate your time.
Senator Cash
Thank you very much.
Lish Fejer
Senator Michaelia Cash, your thoughts 1300 681 666. You heard from her there, why she is introducing that Private Senators bill today up on the hill. Australia’s Capital Territory Dangerous Drugs Bill 2023, looking to repeal it.
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