Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
Mr Garth Hamilton MP
Member for Groom
TRANSCRIPT
Doorstop, Toowoomba, Queensland
27 August 2024
TOPICS: CFMEU strikes, right to disconnect
E&OE
Mr Hamilton
It’s great to have Michaelia Cash here in Toowoomba, because we need to make sure that whatever’s happening in the country, Toowoomba’s voices are heard. Regional Queensland, is going to be impacted as much by changes we’re seeing to IR as anywhere else in the country. We’ve had great run in our agricultural sector. But look at our resources, our manufacturing industries – these are all impacted. It’s important that we make sure these stories, our stories are told.
Senator Cash
Thank you so much. And it is great to be on the ground with Garth here in Toowoomba, and our huge focus today is to be out and about talking to employers. But in particular, what are the impacts on them of the additional red tape that the Australian Labor Party, the Albanese government are imposing on them? It is a fact that in just over two years since Mr. Albanese was elected to office, over 19,000 businesses across Australia have gone broke. That is an absolute indictment on the Albanese government. And when I move around Australia, in particular, when you go to rural and regional Australia, what are the issues that they raise with you? One of them is being wrapped in red tape by the Albanese government. The additional cost, the additional complexity and the additional confusion that the Albanese government is imposing on these businesses means that they either have to sack employees because they can’t afford to keep them anymore, or alternatively, in some cases, they actually have to close their doors. Mr. Albanese and the Labor Party don’t seem to understand a business that has to close its doors employs no one – that is a lose-lose situation for both the employer who doesn’t have a business anymore, and the employees who no longer have jobs. But of course, yesterday, across Australia, the right to disconnect laws commenced, and we have seen employer after employer after employer come out and say to the Albanese government, do you understand the detrimental impact these laws are going to have on our workplaces? In the first instance, nobody knows what they actually are, because there’s no guidance as to what it actually means. Again, when you’re talking about businesses in regional Australia, they face so many different issues on a daily basis, whether it’s the lack of competition, the fact that people don’t have the money that they would like to have to actually spend in the business because of the cost of actually living in these parts of Australia, but also the tyranny of distance. You then put on top of them additional red tape. What do these businesses need to do? But more than that, what is the one thing that businesses across Australia are raising with is the right to disconnect will undermine the flexibility that employers tell their employers they so desperately need. Employers have made it very clear, if they can’t talk to you after hours, they’re going to have to see you in the office between nine and five. How that helps the 24/7 functioning economy that demands flexibility is beyond me.
I’ll just say a few quick words in relation to the administration of the CFMEU. It is well and truly off to a bad start. In the first instance, the Prime Minister of Australia has very serious questions to answer in relation to the statements made by Mr. Setka, that there was a deal done for Mr. Setka to vacate his position, and the CFMEU would not go into administration. The Prime Minister needs to stand up and explain to Australians what conversations were had, who they were had with, and what deals were done. This is now an issue of integrity for the Prime Minister of Australia. But in terms of the administration itself, it is off to a bad start. Certain union officials have not been sacked. The Albanese government needs to explain why, particularly in my home state of Western Australia, these union officials continue to hold their positions. How do you change the culture, the bullying, the intimidation, the thuggery of the CFMEU, if these union officials still hold their places in the union? But what we’re also going to see today across Australia is that the construction industry in Australia will come to a grinding halt. That is absolutely unacceptable, and the only people who ultimately pay the price are the Australian taxpayers, and that is just not good enough. We had always said to Mr. Albanese, it’s a bad idea to abolish the tough cop on the beat the Australian Building and Construction Commission. But he didn’t listen. There are 6.2 million reasons as to why he didn’t listen. But we also said to Mr. Albanese, and this is the real test that he faces – the administration was only ever the first step – you must re-establish the tough cop on the beat, the Australian Building and Construction Commission, and pass the Coalition’s Ensuring Integrity legislation, which will actually help deal with rogue union officials. Mr. Albanese has that opportunity in two weeks time when the parliament returns. So this is an absolute test for Mr. Albanese. Is he actually serious about cleaning up the CFMEU or the construction industry, or is it merely just words?
Journalist
On the CFMEU strike – should employers dock the pay of CFMEU members that are striking today?
Senator Cash
Well, the law is very, very clear. If this is unprotected industrial action, employers must dock the pay of those who are taking the unprotected industrial action by four hours. So the Fair Work Ombudsman, they are out there reminding both employers and employees of what their rights and their obligations are. But what I would say is what a complete, total and utter mess we are now seeing across Australia because of the actions of the Albanese government. Why did they abolish the tough cop on the beat the Australian Building and Construction tradition? We told them at the time, it would be a disaster. And today, mass strikes, mass protests across this country. The construction industry will grind to a halt. That’s completely at the feet of Mr. Albanese, and the only people paying the price, ultimately, are the Australian taxpayer.
Journalist
Don’t construction sector members have the right to be able to – the right to peaceful protest in this country?
Senator Cash
But if this is unprotected industrial action, you actually also need to play by the rules. Mr. Albanese needs to explain to the Australian people why he abolished the tough cop on the beat the Australian Building and Construction Commission. Mr. Albanese needs to explain to the Australian people why the administration of the CFMEU is off to such a bad start. Mr. Albanese needs to explain to the Australian people why he is not supporting in two weeks’ time, the legislation to actually stand up the tough cop on the beat the Australian Building and Construction Commission. But again today across Australia, mass protests and the only people paying the price, ultimately, the Australian taxpayers. And quite frankly, that is not good enough you were talking about.
Journalist
The modern economy is far more flexible, but workers’ only value they have is their labour, and their labour is regimented. How can you square that circle of saying, oh, you should be able to contact outside in the first place?
Senator Cash
The law prior to the right to disconnect, laws already provided a remedy for those workers who are asked to work unreasonable hours. So there was already a remedy in the Workplace Relations Act for those workers to go to the Fair Work Commission. Secondly, what have we learned post-COVID? One of now the most important things that employees value working one on one with their employer in the workplace is flexibility – the ability in their work day to drop their kids off to school, to pick their kids up from school, to go to the hair dresser, to go to the doctor. That’s flexibility worked out one on one in the workplace with the employer. What employers are now telling us is this – that flexibility will now be compromised because they will need to see their employee in the workplace, nine to five. If they can’t contact them after hours, they will need to know exactly what the employee is doing and when.
Journalist
Yeah, but I’m still trying to understand how that’s a bad thing. Sorry, just to do say they’ll need to know nine to five, that’s those are the hours being in the workplace.
Senator Cash
At the moment, they work flexibly with the employer. They work from home some days a week. They nip out to pick their kids up, to drop them off. What employers are now telling us is that flexibility may well now need to be removed, so that they actually have you to be in the workplace in those hours. But not only that, it’s caused chaos and confusion across Australia that has now been imposed on employers. Nobody knows how this law is actually going to work. They’re all now waiting. Will there be a test case that will actually set out the rules the Labor Party have literally, as so many employers have said, they’ve created a problem, not a solution. Cost chaos and confusion, it’s the last thing employers need in a cost of living crisis.
Journalist
You were talking about the businesses going broke. I mean, is there any historical context, 19,000 have gone broke, sure. But is that historically consistent?
Senator Cash
No, it’s actually high. Unfortunately high across Australia. And again, when you talk to businesses about why the cost of doing business for them, and they put that down to increase red tape, has literally meant , they just had to close their doors. The industrial relations laws generally, when you have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of additional legislation that you now need to come up to speed on and understand. What those changes are within itself, means additional cost businesses just can’t afford. Most businesses can’t afford to go anywhere. The complexity in particular, for example, businesses have known that the change to the casual definition has been coming. They are still trying to work their way through what that exact link means for businesses. When you change the law and there is additional cost, complexity and confusion, it has a chilling effect. It means from the day the law changes, they stop their hiring, they stop their expansion. How many businesses across Australia now say they are actually not going to grow beyond 19 because they don’t want to be part of multi-employer bargaining? Again if you add additional red tape, it is cost, it is complexity and it is confusion, and ultimately, businesses just say it’s just all too hard I’m giving up, which is now what’s reflected in the number of businesses across Australia going broke.
Journalist
A lot of the, I guess, employees across Australia who are now like, yeah, if my boss phones me at 8pm at night, I don’t have to answer that at all nowadays. They see that as a good thing. And they’re hearing, I guess, you talk about like from the business owners. What would you say to those employees who actually welcome business?
Senator Cash
I would say, just remember, ultimately, the laws were already in place that provide employees who are asked to work unreasonable over time with the ability to actually make a claim and to take an action. When your employer has worked out with you, one on one in the workplace, where we believe the conversation should be, the flexibility that affords you both the opportunities to get what you need out of the business. And they are now saying those flexibilities might have to go. You need to weigh up – really has this right to disconnect actually added to what you’re wanting? Or alternatively, are you wanting flexibility?
Journalist
Is the Coalition policy to repeal the right to disconnect?
Senator Cash
So we will repeal the right to disconnect because we believe that employers and employees at workplace level are best placed to have these conversations. In fact, it is ironic that the Minister Murray Watt, a Queenslander himself is out there saying, in response to the right to disconnect legislation, it’s all about having a conversation between the employer and the employee. Well, guess what? That is exactly what was occurring prior to the right to disconnect being put in place, and that is what the coalition fundamentally believes. You actually have the conversation at a workplace level, all businesses are different. Employee needs are different. Employer needs are different. You work out with both the employer and the employee what is in the best interests of them in their particular workplace. Government should not be imposing themselves in this.
Journalist
Senator, let’s talk a bit locally. Obviously, in 2022 there was an admittedly, as part of a national swing, there was swing against the Coalition in a very, very safe seat, lots of disaffected Liberals were unsatisfied. As we get closer and closer to the next election, what can we expect from the Coalition?
Senator Cash
Well, ultimately, the one thing I would say to anybody in Australia, it doesn’t matter where you live, the one question you need to ask yourself is: do you feel better off today than you did when Mr. Albanese was elected? Because you look at the promises that Mr. Albanese made to Australians prior to the election. He promised he would bring your power bill down by $275. What a complete, total and utter joke that promise was. When you have increases, in some cases, 22% for gas and electricity then that is a total broken promise. Mr. Albanese said he would get, and I quote, real wages moving. That is the last thing that is happening under this government because of the cost of living crisis. Australian living standards are now in free fall. So again, what I say to people across Australia is the question you need to ask yourself is, do I feel better today since Mr. Albanese was elected? And the overwhelmingly answer is no. The Coalition will go to the election, and we will have policies that will improve Australians’ standard of living, and in my own portfolio of industrial relations, that means removing the additional red tape, that cost, complexity and confusion that is just making it harder for businesses to keep their doors open, to be productive, to grow to be prosperous and to create more jobs for Australians and across Australia. What you will see is our shadow ministers and our leader, we will be out and about, because we like to go and just meet with people and talk to them about what they need.
Mr Hamilton
It’s just 60 hours from Peter’s last visit on the weekend. So he’s been no stranger to us. He’s certainly, been up here, plays a big part in our community, out and down with locals. I think it’s great to see that we have a leader who really understands the concerns of the community,
Journalist
Garth, the right to disconnect, what have you heard from local businesses?
Mr Hamilton
I’m the son of a concreter, that’s my first entry into employment. You talk to a lot of tradies, they find out when they work on small sites during the evening, where they want to go to work the next day. So for them, they do not understand at all how a government that calls itself Labor, is supposed to be connected to the Labor movement, does not understand how Labor works in this country. You’ve got small, small, independent operators who use that model. There’s plenty of people in logistics, truck moving companies, you find out during the evening what their work will be on the next day, because the company only finds out what that work will be at the end of the previous day. This is how businesses worked in Australia for years, and I think this is a great example of the disconnect between working class Australia and the Labor Party. They have no connection whatsoever to people who work on these sites. They love to talk about skills. They love to talk about trade, but when it actually comes to understanding their needs, they are living in a completely different universe. And what I hear on the ground – people just cannot understand how that Labor Party could possibly come up with a policy anywhere like this.
Journalist
But the law doesn’t stop employers reaching out and providing that information, it just means the employee, if they choose, doesn’t have to answer?
Mr Hamiliton
As the government pointed out, you have to go through a legal process. and potentially lose out. There’s significant financial costs going through that process. The suggestion that this is a simple change with is in line with the pathway, the IR legislation has been traveling for a long time in Australia does not stand up. This is a significant change, and that’s the point. There are significant impacts, particularly on our housing industry tradies in the times of housing prices. This will have a negative impact on productivity.
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