Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
Hope FM with Ben McEachen
21 May 2024
Topic: Religious discrimination legislation.
E&OE.
Ben McEachen
Michaelia Cash, thank you very much for joining us on Hope Mornings.
Senator Cash
It is an absolute pleasure to join you and your listeners. Ben.
Ben McEachen
Is there a threat to Christian schools in Australia?
Senator Cash
Yes, there is. And it is a direct threat from the Albanese government. But let me explain why. If the proposed amendments that Mr. Albanese and his Attorney General Mark Dreyfus are putting forward to both the Sex Discrimination Act and the proposed Religious Discrimination Bill are enacted as currently drafted there is a very real and substantial reduction in existing legal and operational freedoms for religious educational institutions. In other words, religious educational institutions in Australia would go a long way backwards and as far as I’m concerned, that is unacceptable.
Ben McEachen
And why is that in the Michaelia? Why would they go backwards with what this draft legislation proposes? Because to the best of my understanding that draft legislation hasn’t been released to the public, is that right?
Senator Cash
And unfortunately, Ben you are correct. In fact, the Albanese government’s farcical handling of their proposed changes to religious discrimination laws has rolled on for months now. As I go around Australia, faith groups remain either confused because they’ve been left out, they’ve been left in the dark or they’re unable to publicly discuss the controversial legislation. This is really no way for a government to treat such a significant issue. The bottom line is that by keeping this proposed legislation secret, the government is hampering the consultation process. And they’re making it really difficult for all stakeholders, including families who send their children to faith-based schools to get a real understanding of the issues involved. I have made it very very clear though. The coalition’s guiding principle is that any legislative package brought forward by the government must be one that takes religious people forwards and not backwards.
Ben McEachen
Why do you think it’s sending schools backwards? If this draft legislation went through why would that be the case?
Senator Cash
Because ultimately, as I’ve said, in discussions with faith leaders, they are key issues that have been raised over and over again. The faith-based schools and faith leaders have told me time and time again that a red line issue for them is their ability to maintain their ethos and values is under constant attack, not just from state and territory governments, but also now from the Federal Government and my message to faith-based schools. is very clear. We believe in you. We have faith in you, and we want you to have a future. Faith-based schools matter. And Mr. Albanese and his government should respect how parents choose to raise their children and have their children educated and in terms of the legislation, they are bringing forward, unfortunately, the ALRC recommendations which the government, in the draft legislation that I have, have adopted, it strips away the protections that allow religious schools to build and maintain a faith-based ethos. That is what is so concerning that the Albanese government, Mr. Albanese as prime minister would seek to legislate and strip away protections that allow religious schools to build and maintain a faith-based ethos. This is all about parents sending their children to faith-based schools because they want them to be educated in an environment shaped by strong values and that if this legislation goes through, will be denied.
Ben McEachen
That would mean for example, at a Christian school that if this legislation went through, you could not employ somebody based solely upon their Christian values. You would have to consider other candidates even if they did not profess the Christian beliefs values ethos of the school.?
Senator Cash
So what the legislation says is you can preference a teacher of your own religion so for example, a Catholic school should they want to would be able to preference another Catholic. A Jewish school another Jewish person, a Muslim school, another Muslim person. However, in terms of management of that particular teacher throughout the contract, that is where you’re going to run into problems. Schools, as I said, or parents send their children to a faith-based school because they want their child to actually be educated in an environment shaped by strong values. They recognize the value of a school as a community you know, guided by religious and moral principles grounded in faith. That is a choice that should be respected by a government, the Albanese government legislation, puts that all in doubt. And as I said, schools want to educate they don’t want to litigate, and under the Albanese government’s legislation, they’ll well and truly be litigating, as opposed to educating.
Ben McEachen
Why are you speaking out about this?
Senator Cash
Because I fundamentally believe in the right of parents to choose how their children are educated. You know, for me, for Peter Dutton, this is all about respecting how parents choose to raise their children. This is about placing value in particular on faith in Australian society. I mean, history shows us that faith is something that brings our community together. It is something that should be celebrated in so many parts of Australia. It’s the churches that built the school’s the hospitals, the daycare centres, the aged care homes. And what you want as I see it, implemented, you know, this legislation, it strips away the legal protections that make it possible for these schools to build a religious ethos and grow a community guided by shared values. That is unacceptable. I believe in faith-based schools. I believe faith-based schools in this country should have a future. And this is about respecting how parents choose to raise their children. As I said, parents send their children to faith-based schools because they want them to be educated in an environment shaped by strong values. That is a choice that should be respected by the government.
Ben McEachen
Excuse my ignorance on this point, but as you’ve been discussing these potential religious discrimination laws, it got me thinking about other organisations that may have very strong beliefs and values and an idea around that such as environmental advocacy, or sex orientation or a gender, charity, for example. I presume that these sorts of religious discrimination laws wouldn’t necessarily apply to them. But are there particular discrimination laws in a similar vein for that kind of group because they have set beliefs and values and an ethos.
Senator Cash
So in terms of what we’re discussing the changes to in particular the Sex Discrimination Act, strictly speaking, no. Why? Because the main changes to the Sex Discrimination Act that the Albanese government wants to implement relate to religious educational institutions. So it doesn’t really affect any other type of organizations like environmental bodies, as you’ve said, the nuance is that those bodies don’t currently have a protection that is going to be removed. Religious educational institutions, religious schools do currently have a protection. Why? Because faith is protected, and it’s protected because it is a fundamental attribute protected under international law that cuts across all areas of life, unlike, say beliefs about the environment. So we would say that faith is something fundamental, that is recognised as a human right, it warrants protection at law, and removing those protections as the Albanese government wants to do, takes people of faith backwards. So in terms of what we’re speaking about, the most important change affects religious educational institutions.
Ben McEachen
Thinking about if this legislation did not go through, I imagined those that wanted to go through may be concerned about how discrimination can be stopped or monitored in a Christian or a faith-based school. How do you think that would happen if the legislation did not go through?
Senator Cash
Well, at this point in time, as I said, if the legislation doesn’t go through the status quo remains. What does that mean? It means that section 38 of the Sex Discrimination Act, which currently provides a protection for schools from both direct and indirect discrimination claims that are made under that act. So in other words, the school is able to act in good faith and uphold its religious ethos. The protections are there for the schools, because faith is protected because it is a fundamental attribute that needs to be protected. What so many schools tell me is that they often don’t rely on this exemption. They’ll work with the person in the school to uphold the religious ethos. But it is important though, if you believe that faith is a protected attribute and the status quo remains, what it says is, schools are able to act in good faith and uphold their religious ethos. And that protection is given to them at law.
Ben McEachen
And would you also say that there are enough discrimination laws in place in Australia without adding additional ones that if somebody a staff member, let’s say at a faith based school did claim that they were being discriminated against by their employer, they have plenty of legal avenues to pursue?
Senator Cash
Well, ultimately, the answer is yes, there are legal avenues to pursue you could pursue them in relation to a breach of a contract of employment, for example, and depending on the grounds of discrimination, if that’s what you’re alleging, you may be able to make a claim. But the important thing here to remember is, there are currently and for very good reason, express protections in the Sex Discrimination Act, and that is section 38 that allow a school to manage teacher conduct in good faith, if it is necessary to do so, to uphold the religious ethos of that school. In other words, schools are able to conduct themselves in accordance with their values and their ethos. And so, that is the protection that is currently given to a school and that is what the Albanese government wants to take away.
Ben McEachen
If any of us want to have our say about these possible changes to religious discrimination laws, how do we do that? And I’m also particularly thinking about how do we get better informed about this if the draft laws are unavailable?
Senator Cash
Well, that’s unfortunately, that is a really, really good question. Because as I said, the Albanese government’s farcical handling at the moment of their proposed changes, has rolled on for months, people are in the dark, they’re unable to publicly discuss the controversial legislation if they have seen it. And what I’ve been saying is that the government should release the draft legislation. Why? Because people of faith deserve to know what protections the Albanese government are taking away from them, in particular insofar as it relates to their choice of schooling. schools want to educate, not litigate. Our laws should respect the rights of parents to make a choice. So what I would say to your listeners is, go online, right to the Prime Minister and say you do not want him to take away your right as a parent, in terms of how your child is educated, make it very, very clear to Mr. Albanese that you do not want to take a step backwards. Mr. Albanese should not be denying or restricting your choice as a parent about how you raise and educate your children. So get directly onto the Prime Minister’s office but also get directly onto the Attorney General’s office. You need to send them a very, very clear message that faith by schools in this country matter. And as I said, I’ve made it very, very clear. The guiding principle for the coalition is that any legislative package brought forward by the government must be one that takes religious people forwards and not backwards and the legislation that I currently have, and certainly the feedback across Australia from all of the faith-based groups that I have spoken to is that the legislation will take them backwards. And that is not something that we can support.
Ben McEachen
Michaelia Cash – thank you very much for joining us on Hope mornings.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you.
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