Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
25 February 2025
Radio 2CC Canberra with Stephen Cenatiempo
Topics: Government refuses to answer questions on Dural caravan briefing, transparency, Senate Estimates
Stephen Cenatiempo
Yesterday in Senate Estimates, there was a bit of a flare-up over Coalition Senators grilling the Government over its knowledge of the Dural caravan terror plot, which is still as murky as all hell. To talk to us about this, we’re joined by the Shadow Attorney-General, Michaelia Cash. Senator, good morning.
Senator Cash
Good morning, Stephen, and good morning to your listeners.
Stephen Cenatiempo
The Government is reluctant to give any straight answers on this, whereas the New South Wales Government seems to be open and transparent about what they knew and when they knew it. Obviously, there are operational considerations that need to be taken into account when it comes to an investigation like this, but why is the Federal Government so opaque?
Senator Cash
Well, it is utterly extraordinary, Stephen, that Senator Wong, a senior government minister, walks into a Senate Estimates committee and, before any questions have been asked, gives a statement that she will not be answering any questions at all in relation to the Dural caravan issue. In other words, a caravan that was found filled with explosives, with the addresses of a synagogue—without even hearing what a question is. So much for transparency. She says, I won’t answer any of those questions. They will all be taken on notice. And quite frankly, Stephen, for a government that talked so much about transparency prior to the election, I have to say they get less than zero out of ten when it comes to transparency in government.
But more than that, it’s treating the Senate Estimates committee with contempt. It’s treating the Australian public with contempt. But as you said, the whole situation just got murkier, because I have to say, people are now asking: was the Prime Minister even briefed at all? Chris Minns—we know when he was briefed. He stood up, and he was happy to tell everybody when he was briefed on the Dural caravan plot. Crickets from the Prime Minister.
There are serious national security questions for the Prime Minister to answer here. Is he in control or not? And I have to say, it’s looking like he is a weak Prime Minister who wouldn’t have a clue what is going on.
Stephen Cenatiempo
Michaelia, look, the Coalition has prosecuted this fairly well, particularly in Question Time over the last two sitting weeks. But the question that nobody seems to ask is: why is this an operational issue, and why do you believe this is going to impact the investigation?
Senator Cash
That is exactly right. We have asked that question consistently in Parliament, and yesterday, again, we put to Senator Wong: Can you please tell us why disclosing the date on which the Prime Minister was briefed—seeing as the Premier of New South Wales stood up and told the public exactly when he was briefed—how is this going to prejudice an ongoing law enforcement investigation?
And all Penny Wong could come up with was, Oh, the AFP told us so. That is actually not true. The AFP declined to answer questions in another hearing on the basis that they did not believe the questions being asked were the subject or purpose of that particular hearing.
But again, it goes to—does this Prime Minister lead our country or not? Why is Chris Minns, the New South Wales Premier, able to answer a basic question? Australians deserve answers on the handling of what could have been one of the most catastrophic acts of terror seen in Australia, and all we have from the Prime Minister—forget ducking and weaving—you now have a Prime Minister who is stonewalling when it comes to accountability, and that is an absolute disgrace.
Stephen Cenatiempo
So, do we know where we’re at with this investigation now? Because we’ve had a rather cryptic message from the New South Wales Police Commissioner about the investigation into the two nurses, saying that, again, there seems to be all these obfuscations—a national approach is needed?
Senator Cash
Absolutely. And Peter Dutton has also called for an investigation into this matter for very obvious reasons.
In the past, the Prime Minister of Australia has been more than happy to tell Australians when he was briefed about certain incidents. For example, he was happy to stand up and tell the Australian public when he was briefed about the terrorist attack at the Adass Synagogue. He was happy to tell the Australian public when he was briefed in relation to the terrorist attack at the Wakeley Church.
So the problem now for the Prime Minister is that his failure to be across his brief on a critical national security issue confirms, yet again, an ongoing pattern of behaviour. And you mentioned this in your introduction. This is a weak Prime Minister who, it would appear, didn’t even know about a potential mass casualty terrorist attack in Australia.
But more than that, it’s everybody else’s problem. They wanted government. They achieved government. And when they got there, they didn’t know what to do. And we are now almost three years into this term, and you have a Prime Minister who continues to not answer directly and honestly a simple question that Chris Minns is able to answer: Prime Minister, when were you briefed on what could have been one of the most catastrophic acts of terror ever seen in Australia?
Stephen Cenatiempo
It’s interesting you mention that—I’ve had Labor backbenchers say that exact same thing to me privately.
Senator Cash
Correct. And Labor backbenchers—and I mean, you never disclose who they are, obviously—but they are ripping their hair out because they themselves know it is unacceptable for the Prime Minister to be unable to answer a simple question on the issue of national security.
They themselves are actually the ones now quietly asking behind closed doors: What the hell happened? Was there a breakdown? Was someone in the Prime Minister’s office told, and they forgot to pass it on?
Was the Prime Minister standing next to Chris Minns at Chris Minns’ press conference and didn’t know? I mean, there are now more questions to answer when, if you’d been upfront from day one and answered the simple question—When were you first briefed?—you could have put this matter to bed.
But the problem now is you’ve actually got the Prime Minister embroiled almost in a scandal—a coordinated cover-up of the simple fact: When was the Prime Minister first told of the explosive-laden Dural caravan incident that contained the address of a Sydney synagogue?
Why is there a cover-up? And, Stephen, it wasn’t just with Minister Penny Wong yesterday. It was also with Minister Murray Watt—James Paterson was questioning him, and he refused to answer.
I mean, this is now a coordinated cover-up across government, and the Australian people should be demanding answers from the Prime Minister: When did you know? And I have to say, all this says is you have a Prime Minister who is now confirming to the Australian people that in relation to a critical issue of national security, he’s not across his brief. And quite frankly, he’s weak. And that is not good enough—particularly when you have antisemitism across Australia at the level that it is.
Stephen Cenatiempo
Extraordinary—well, the polling reflects that the Australian people are waking up. Michaelia, good to talk to you.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you, Stephen. Thank you.
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