E&OE
Tom Connell
Unions want to address the overhaul to the way enterprise agreements work. They want the possibility of multi-employer agreements, that is not just negotiating one employer but possible, multiple employers at the same time. We’re yet to know exactly what Labor thinks of this, but it is on the table ahead of the jobs summit next week. Joining me now is the Shadow Employment Minister Michaelia Cash. Thanks very much for your time. I guess just to start with, if you’re talking about big solutions, you need to agree there’s a big problem. Do you think there’s an inherent issue with unemployment so low and the normal pickup in wages we would have seen by now not happening. Is something about the system broken up?
Senator Cash
Well, clearly there are issues but I think the two policy solutions that have already been put on the table – in particular by Peter Dutton could have already been addressed by Anthony Albanese, and they are of course is, you know, the veterans and pensioners policy to allow them to work additional hours without affecting their pension. But also in relation to migration to get it going again. I think Tom, what you’re seeing is governing is actually hard. And Mr. Albanese is finally working that out. And to date all we are seeing from him is let’s push that over to the Job Summit. Let’s push that over to the Job Summit. And yet there are already policy solutions on the table that I think across the board even commentators are saying they actually could have been actioned and yet what we’re seeing to date is let’s just push that to the Job Summit. And you know, I’ve been pretty clear Mr. Albanese needs to start governing and stop acting like an opposition leader.
Tom Connell
The Jobs Summit is soon enough but just on those two solutions you mentioned they’re both solutions to get more workers in, Well that’s the opposite to increasing wages. Do you agree that there’s something broken about the system where there’s a disconnect between very low unemployment and the point at which you’d normally see wages begin to pick up?
Senator Cash
Well, I think one of the fundamental problems when you actually go out there as I do and talk to businesses is when you cannot access the labour you need. You either have to close or alternatively, you’re unable to lift your productivity because you actually cannot undertake the additional shifts you want. Again, it’s all tied back to a business that does not get access to the labour they need. Either has to close, well guess what? Then you actually don’t have a wage. Or alternatively, you may want to pursue those additional shifts. You may want to open that additional day but can’t increase your productivity because you’re like a little hamster on the wheel. You do not get access to the labour that you need. But let’s just look at the solutions that the ACTU themselves have put on the table. Let’s now go to industry wide bargaining, the fact that Mr. Albanese has said and Mr. Burke will actually discuss this at the job summit – should quite frankly send a shiver down the spine of all Australians, but in particular employers. That is, as you know, taking us back to the Dark Ages, that is taking us back to an economy that can be shut down overnight across Australia, at a time when both employers and employees are screaming for flexibility in the workplace. What you have is Mr. Albanese saying “happy to return to the dark days of… and actually have that ability, for example, for a person in Perth to strike in support of someone in Brisbane. You tell me, Tom, how is that addressing the situation that we currently have in Australia?
Tom Connell
So what about options that there should be, for example, and this is, you know, what employers did want an easier ability if they were negotiating for these EBAs from multiple companies to be involved. So you don’t have to do one at a time. Would that be an easier option? Because at the moment, it’s a bit of red tape? You have to sort of go.
Senator Cash
Ah, and you’ve hit the nail on the head, you have hit the nail on the head, red tape. The changes that we had proposed to the enterprise bargaining system, which we brought forward, as you know, to the Senate, which employers overwhelmingly supported, dealt with the actual issues that are of concern. You need to have a fast simpler system. You need to get rid of in particular, the process requirements. The fact that an enterprise agreement that has been overwhelmingly supported by the majority of the workforce. That the employer has given undertakings in relation to. Can actually then be told nope, no go zone – back to the table you go. That is absolutely unacceptable. We had put forward very clear changes including a 21-day approval process. That’s what employers are looking for. Those two words that you said red tape, strangulation of the system.
Tom Connell
So what about small business because big business have pushback against the idea of industry-wide. But small business say “hey, this could actually work out for us, we don’t have the time to do these negotiations.” Could that be something that would apply to employees within a sector for small business?
Senator Cash
Well, I’m going to actually disagree with that and I an agreement. I actually disagree with a position that has been put forward by Alexei Boyd in COSBOA because certainly when I’m out there talking to small businesses. The last thing they want is a union interfering in their workplace. B – the inability to negotiate themselves with their own staff. And if you want to talk about a lack of resources by small business – just get the unions involved in your day to day operations. Again, you hit the nail on the head with the two words, red tape.
Tom Connell
She’s the Small Business representative, Senator.
Senator Cash
She is one of the small business representatives and I have to say…
Tom Connell
Picking up parts of this. You talk about union intervention, but couldn’t there be a way to incorporate parts of this or be able to become a party to something without the so called intervention you talk about.
Senator Cash
But one thing that small businesses hold dear is the ability to negotiate directly with the people in their small business. And I would hate to see that.
Tom Connell
But it’s time consuming.
Senator Cash
I would hate to see that undermined in any way. And I think if you actually go out there and talk to individual deli owners, for example. They would be horrified to think that that is actually going to be taken away.
Tom Connell
Isn’t that what Alexi Boyd’s doing?
Senator Cash
Sorry, you dropped out there, Tom.
Tom Connell
Sorry, isn’t that what Alexei Boyd’s doing? Going out to talk to people – she’s the advocate and she says it’s an interesting idea, we might look at parts of it.
Senator Cash
Well, again, I would hate to see anything that is going to undermine the ability of small businesses to negotiate directly with the people in their own business. And again, the coalition took this to the Senate last year and it was a debate that Labor obviously did not support but employers at the time, were screaming out for not a return to the dark days of old, not a return to the ability of the unions to literally close down industries across Australia – In one fowl swoop. What they were looking for was improvements to the flexibility within the system, the simplicity within the system, but also the speed at which you actually get an agreement approved. And that is why we can put forward the changes that we had put forward Which unfortunately as you know, Labor fought against every step of the way.
Tom Connell
We’ve run out of time. We might talk to you again Senator when we’ve got some more concrete ideas. A
Senator Cash
I look forward to it. All right, thanks, Tom.
Tom Connell
Michaelia Cash, thank you. Talk to you again soon.
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