Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
Youth Jam Radio Perth with Isaac Mulcrone
4 December 2024
TOPICS: Sculpture by the Sea Cottesloe, social media legislation
E&OE
Isaac Mulcrone
I’m joined by Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash live on the phone. Senator, good afternoon to you. Thanks for your time.
Senator Cash
Good afternoon, Isaac and a big hello to your listeners.
Isaac Mulcrone
It’s lovely to have you. Let’s go to this Sculpture by the Sea. The Liberal for Curtin, Tom White to run against Kate Chaney – he has committed $1.5 million over two years. So $750,000 per year in 26 and 27 if the Liberals, or the Coalition, is elected into government next year. How important is the Sculpture by the Sea to the Liberal Party? And do you see it as, I guess, something that brings economic benefit to our state?
Senator Cash
Well, Isaac in the first instance, what an indictment on Mr. Albanese. He keeps on telling Western Australians that he gets us and is there for us, and yet, we wake up yesterday to the front page of The West Australian to find that Perth’s iconic beachside art exhibition, which is, of course, Sculpture by the Sea at the famous Cottesloe Beach, is not going ahead in 2025 because the Albanese government just haven’t funded it. So what an indictment on Mr. Albanese. To say that Albanese Labor has walked away from WA – well, the proof of that is in their just total lack of understanding of how important the Sculpture by the Sea is to us. Yesterday, I spoke directly to Tom White as the Liberal candidate in Curtin. We spoke to Peter Dutton, and we agreed this is incredibly important to us in Western Australia, it was the former Coalition government that had actually provided the funding for this to go ahead. Labor has stopped the funding now, unfortunately, we’re not in government. If we were, this wouldn’t have happened. But not being in government means we cannot provide the funding for 2025 so under Albanese, it’s not going ahead. But absolutely our commitment is Sculpture by the Sea – we will give it the financial support it needs to proceed in 2026 and 2027, So you know, good on Tom White, to be able to get on top of this as quickly as he could, but also to get a commitment that we will provide this funding. Because every year it is something that you know people from WA, but also from interstate and even overseas – we look forward to it. And I’m just absolutely delighted that in 2026 and 27 if, if we do get the privilege of being in government again, Sculpture by the Sea under a Dutton government, it’s going ahead.
Isaac Mulcrone
You have to make friends of Creative Australia who don’t seem to like it. I could not believe that.
Senator Cash
It was unbelievable to me as well.
Isaac Mulcrone
I spoke yesterday to David Handley, who’s the founder of Sculpture by the Sea, and he said that simply, they’re not part of the club, meaning they don’t get funding. So are you going to speak to Creative Australia and tell them forthright that if you are elected into government next year, that funding is to go to Sculpture by the Sea, or is it going through a different channel?
Senator Cash
Oh, well, in the first instance, Mr. Albanese should have stood up and gone into bat for Western Australia. Where are all the Western Australian Labor Federal members going into bat for Western Australia. But more than that, where’s Kate Chaney? Seriously, Kate Chaney, the Federal member for Curtin, she would have known about this. She is either not trying hard enough, or alternatively she did try and guess what, she’s not effectual. This is an indictment on both Kate Chaney as the Federal member for Curtin, but also on every WA Federal Labor member and senator that they have not gone into bat for our great state and for the artists that actually exhibit. Do you know last year alone, over 220,000 people attended Sculpture by the Sea. I mean, it’s just as I said, this is an iconic Western Australian event, and you don’t have anyone from Federal Labor here going into bat for us. The Federal member if she did well, she didn’t try hard enough, or alternatively, she’s ineffectual. You don’t have Mr. Albanese doing anything. Tony Burke, the relevant Minister, what’s he done? He’s increased funding for more public servants in Canberra. But guess what? That hasn’t exactly helped Perth’s iconic beach side art exhibition Sculpture by the Sea. So guess what? The Coalition, if we’re given the honour and privilege of governing again, it’s going ahead under us.
Isaac Mulcrone
I’m interested in a comment that, again, David Handley said yesterday to me, he mentioned that they’ve written to the Minister in charge of the Arts, and they claim they can’t intervene into this. And this is all up to Creative Australia. I mean, what I understand is that the minister most certainly can intervene. I mean, you’re someone who knows a lot more about this than me. Can the Minister intervene?
Senator Cash
Well, ultimately, under the previous Coalition government, sculpture by the Sea received significant funding, as you know. So, $1 million under the Catalyst program in 2017 and $2 million under what’s called the RISE program in 2021. And then what you see is under Labor, there has not been $1 committed to Sculpture by the Sea. I find it rather interesting that that is the response from Labor. So instead of funding more frontline art events like Sculpture by the Sea at Cottesloe, as I said, what does Tony Burke do? He’s increased funding for more public servants in Canberra. The number of public servants I understand in Creative Australia, has increased from 96 to 149. The number of board members, from 11 to 38 so that’s an additional 80 positions. And despite an additional 80 positions, we’re left high and dry in Western Australia. I mean, you have the founder, David Handley, he made desperate pleas to Federal Labor, and the back was still turned on him again. For me, what it comes down to Isaac is you either believe in Western Australia or you don’t? We believed in Western Australia, we understood, in particular, the economic benefit to our great State of this iconic event, and that is why we ensured that it has funding. Or you can actually talk a big game like Federal Labor does, but judge them by their decisions. And in this case, their failure to provide the financial support means that in 2025 there is no Sculpture by the Sea. But I have to say, Mr. Albanese, I understand, is in WA at the end of this week. If he stands up and says, “oh, we made a mistake, we’re now going to give you the funding for 2025” – the only reason is because he’s been caught out and he’s got to clean up his mess. The fact that we didn’t get the funding – that it is now cancelled – already shows Albanese Labor has walked away from WA. Judge them by their actions, not their words.
Isaac Mulcrone
So can the minister intervene? Or is he, or are they, basically helpless?
Senator Cash
Well, at the end of the day, they can give a very clear direction. And as I said, we were able to find funding under several programs. The first being the Catalyst program, and secondly, the RISE program. If Mr. Albanese believed in Western Australia, he would find a way to fund it. We have given a commitment that we will provide the funding in 2026 and 2027. We will provide that as standalone funding to ensure that it goes ahead. Mr. Albanese could have done the same thing, but again, where were the Federal Labor members and senators? Where was Kate Chaney? Where were they screaming from the highest tower that we needed this funding a because it’s an iconic event, but more than that, because of the number of people who go and see it and the economic benefit to our great state? Nowhere to be seen.
Isaac Mulcrone
I want to move quickly to the social media ban. It would be remiss of me not to ask you about it, seeing as though it was a very bad timing I was on sick leave. I want to chat a bit about the Coalition’s position on it. Back to the Voice, it was completely different but the Liberals were saying that there’s not enough information in the voice to vote yes. Which, again, I said this before completely, and you’re right to say so. But when it comes to this social media ban, for many of us, and many of our listeners, have said to me, there’s not enough information in this to agree with this, to vote yes, to vote in favour for this social media ban. Obviously, on Thursday night, very late at night, that Bill did pass the Senate. Why did the Coalition vote in favour of it, when it feels like there wasn’t enough information to this legislation?
Senator Cash
So, in the first instance, Peter Dutton has led the national debate on social media age limits. For some time now, we have consistently called out the shocking impact of social media on kids and especially girls and in fact, protecting children from social media. In 2024 the reality for all of us is, you know, it is one of the defining issues of our era. When in particular, you talk to parents whose young sons and young daughters have committed suicide because of the impact of social media on them. I mean, in no other generation Isaac, have children been exposed to so much damaging material at such a young age. So for us as a Coalition, it was crucial that we acted to address this disturbing fact. Now we worked with the Labor Party to secure a number of changes to the legislation to address the issues that were being raised. So the first was strengthened rules around privacy. So the legislation that went through was passed after the Coalition negotiated changes, and we insisted on them, and in the end, the Labor Party accepted them, which, as I said, strengthened the rules around privacy. So under our changes, we have made sure that people cannot be compelled to provide digital ID, because one of the worries was this was actually all about a pathway to digital ID. So we ensured that no, under these changes, you cannot be compelled to provide digital ID. So that means basically a government issued identity documents, such as a driver’s license or a passport. That was a huge change.
Isaac Mulcrone
Can you prove your age to people, though?
Senator Cash
And this is the key, okay, so the platforms, as we know, already do this. How do you know that? Well, in the first instance, they’re very, very good at targeting products to us, it’s all in the algorithms. For example, they’re not going to be calling me out as someone under the age of 16 because of what I look at when I’m online. Okay, so we’ll look at meditation, relaxation, things like that. They know automatically what they’re going to be pumping out to me. If you look at say, Tiktok. Now, Tiktok your viewers or your listeners, they’re going to be all over Tiktok. Tiktok have already come forward and said they removed 1 million Australian accounts last year that was suspected of being underage. And what did they do? They utilized existing technology so that the programs and the systems are already there. Because how do people actually think you go online? Doesn’t matter what media you use, you are already bombarded with things because they’ve identified who you are. And as I said, Tiktok have already said they removed 1 million Australian accounts last year because they were suspected of being underage. Now why did they do that? Because social media platforms across the board already have a policy anyone under the age of 13 is not allowed to use them. So all we’ve done is say 13 to 16. But again, why have we done this in the first instance? You know, your listeners would know society is already sufficiently regulated as far as age restrictions are concerned. So, for example, teenagers can’t buy cigarettes, they can’t buy alcohol, they can’t participate in online betting and gambling. They can’t go to nightclubs, etc. You can’t access adult content online. You can’t hold a driver’s license. Everybody accepts these laws and why? Because they understand you’ve got to protect our children. Now I’m the first person to say technology has brought us countless benefits. However, the flip side, and this is what we need to take action in relation to, is it’s also created an online world. It’s full of scammers, predators, cyber bullies, online radical recruiters and hackers. Now they know, because this is an industry for them. They go after minors because they know they’re vulnerable online, and they exploit them. So that is why this is all about the protection of our children the age limit. It’s already there at 13, we are saying it now needs to be 16. And the social media companies themselves, they’ve already said we also do this because we actively a) already target, but b) we already remove Australian accounts that we suspect of being under the age of 13.
Isaac Mulcrone
In any event, Senator, do you think that prohibition works? Because, as you rightfully point out, I mean things, for example, like illicit drugs, alcohol, they’re all banned for those under the age of 18, they’re not allowed to access but we still have people accessing it, drinking alcohol, using illicit drugs. Cannabis is a huge one, for example. And past examples of prohibition have never worked in the US. For example, when they banned alcohol – that never worked, it went underground and consumed it underground. Do you think that this is going to work?
Senator Cash
So it’s a really good question. Isaac. So in the first instance, what I’d say is, when you actually look out across Australia, the support for this, there is overwhelming support from Australians. And in particular, as I said, if you’re one of those parents whose child has committed suicide because of the impact of social media, you understand exactly what this does to your family, to the school community and to society. But secondly, we’ve been very upfront. The new system won’t be perfect. No laws are and you are right, some kids will get around the system, just like people flout speeding or underage drinking laws. But overall, yes, this will make a difference for Australian families, as I said, we were concerned about some aspects of it, in particular in relation to privacy and digital ID. So we have secured very strong amendments. In this regard. We’ve also ensured that the legislation will prohibit platforms from, say, using the information collected for the age checking purposes, for any other purpose, but also it’s the level of the penalty. So serious and repeated breaches of this you know, it could result in penalties to the platforms of up to $50 million under the Privacy Act. So the platform themselves now know they are on notice. And while yes, in terms of the strength of the laws, Australia is now a world leader, it also shouldn’t be underestimated that other countries are going down and have already gone down, a similar path, and I find often Isaac that so many who are talking out against this, and in particular, a number of the social media companies, they have a vested interest, to the tune of billions of dollars each year. It’s as simple as that.
Isaac Mulcrone
But there are young people also who have voiced their opposition to this. But there are young people who are working, for example, Six News Australia doing really well on social media, news platform. There are people, young people, particularly, who don’t feel they’ve been consulted about this, and they feel like they’ve been left behind. I mean, there was only 24 hours to get in submissions against this or for this, and to have people say, I mean, it just felt rushed.
Senator Cash
And that’s why we will continue to monitor the impact. But it’s also why we also negotiated specific carve outs. So for example, messaging services, services that support health, education of users, which would include, say, YouTube, WhatsApp, Messenger Kids, Reach out to Peer chat and Google Classroom. You’ve also got the ability for the Minister themselves. They have a rule making power to exclude specific classes of services from the definition. So again, as I said, for me as a member of the Coalition, enough was enough in terms of understanding what the negative impact of social media is on our kids. But also, yeah, we got the changes that we needed. And as I said, I’m not going to sit here and tell your listeners that it’s going to be a perfect system. It won’t be, but it will make a real difference for Australian families and so many parents say, we say no to our kids, but they don’t listen to us. They needed government to step in and to help them, and that is what we have done. Again, I’m the first to admit technology is amazing, the benefits, but also the reality is, and in particular, as a policy maker, someone who has to look at the broader impact that online world, scammers, predators, and cyber bullies. You know, when you’ve got kids committing suicide, you can’t ignore that, Isaac. You’ve got actually online radical recruiters, actually going and looking for vulnerable children to turn into terrorists. Sometimes you’ve got to say as a policymaker, you know, enough is enough. And we do need to take action. And that’s what we’ve done.
Isaac Mulcrone
Senator Cash, thank you for your time.
Senator Cash
A pleasure to be with you, Isaac.
Recent Comments